Recently concluded debates with Anik Bin Ashraf (his comments are in red italics)
4. Excellent points Anik!
If the doors of Ijtehad are still open than why is Saudi Arabia despite all its wealth and fact that most monotheistic pROPHETs were born in the country, still has such a lot of social morbidity? Human rights, freedom of expressions as enshrined in the kO’RAN are still grossly violated, women – our mothers and sisters still looked down upon as filth, treated like crass animals, even denied an opportunity to drive a car among others? What is most striking is no less than the US supports them – and this in turn ensures that the Abbasid/Umayyid cohorts still rule roost, still derails all egalitarian possibilities of Islam. Therefore as far as I am concerned, if we are going to look at Saudi Arabia as the center of Islam or even an example, our woes will never end.
The Wahabis declared ‘war’ on the Sufis for in essence; the later are the ones that actually propagated plurality of Islam that led to billions embracing the faith. No pROPHET came to our part of the world, and the reason why we are Muslims today is NOT because of the Wahabis or their predecessors – but Sufis – who taught the highest level of Ilm-e-Tusawwuf. The Abbasid/Umayyid and Wahibi and their agenda of Jihad-e-Qitl (as opposed to the lofty ideal of Jihad-e-Akbar) led not only to madhabs but Islam today being divided to over 70 firqas. Ijtehad was never the ideals of Wahabis, it was ‘kill cause you do not agree with me’ period. That madhab and firqas were the necessary outcome – for no other reason – but survival.
NO the pROPHET explained nothing – if he did we wouldn’t be arguing today. He didn’t make it easy for us, instead insisted on the study of the kO’RAN and to leave it to our faculties (akel) to understand. kO’RAN is NOT the last word of gOD – it is the last time gOD has communicated with man. It continues to be radically interpreted on both right and left – but most unfortunately NOT in the center – our brains, where it is direly needed. There is no coercion in Islam simply because the human brain hadn’t evolved 1500 years back to ‘understand’ the book, neither has it today. And even while it (the brain) has evolved to the techno-cyber level it is today - try as we may, it is still is an empty hard disk with less that 15% of space occupied! There are no directives In the kO’RAN to either study, trust or believe these Hadith. The pROPHET forbade even what he uttered to be recorded, for he knew over time they will be misinterpreted and they have been misinterpreted.
Despite the over 100,000 pROPHETs of mankind, Muhammad is the ONLY one who has a historical axiom. It surely is a blessing that other than his grave, his house, his utensils, clothes – even parts of his beard have been preserved – giving credibility to the existence of the man. But more than that – the words of gOD revealed in the kO’RAN through him for mankind by Gabriel is preserved largely intact if not unblemished due to the interference of man.
Question: if ‘graves’ are not worthy of worship – then why has the ‘grave’ of pROPHET Muhammad been preserved? What have the billions of faithful who have flocked the site done in 1500 years if not 'worship’ – when the kO’RAN specifically states – ‘the best Muslim grave is one that mixes with the dust and leaves no trace’? Did ‘Muslims’ err after the death of the pROPHET? The answers are historical and have nothing to do with either religion or spirituality.
Finally, where the Sufis are misunderstood is not in their radical interpretation of the kO’RAN or challenging the existing status quo, but in their seeking to find, examine and understand the deepest and arduous efforts and meditation of Muhammad for over 15 years in the caves of Mount Heera that led to the kO’RAN being revealed, and Islam being born. If that is appreciated and understood, no Hadith as such is required! Thanks - Mac H
3. Alright Mac bhai...let me just share my views...Imam Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab (from him/his time Wahabi term started) is from 18th century!! Ijtihad is still going on, sholars are actually continueing to do so. Rather all the madhabs are results of ijtihad which came around those 400 years! Soofi dorbesh people cant stand Ibn A Wahhab and Saudis because he with the help of the al-Saud family (as they were the rulers then as well) went in jihad to demolish graves which were being worshipped by soofis. They still exist. And Quran is complete but use of Hadith is a must which no way belittles Quran. Otherwise why would Prophet explain it, if it was clear to general audience?
My point is...time n again...u emphasized more on studying Quran itself...whereas I explained Hadith as an effective tool to understand Quran....so, fundamentally....I don't see much difference boss...:)
2. Dear Anik Bin Ashraf - I do not claim to be a know all and surely there is no end to human mistakes and human learning. That is a process that must continue from cradle to the grave. We have a lot to learn from each other and the bigger respect from you will be earned, if you be so kind enough to share where you differ with me.
I can see that most friends of Wasim are deeply religious and that fills me with pride. However where we all perhaps go wrong is we do not examine spiritual angles to belief and this mix up and muddle creates most confusions. There is none to blame here than our legacy of misinterpretation that has derailed Islam and made laughing stock out of Muslims. I am an agnostic - born a Muslim, and therefore respectful of all religions and belief systems. When Muslims are derided, let me assure you - it pains me no end. But is that really the problem of Muslims, Islam or the kO'RAN?
Our problems started 400 years after the death of the pROPHET when the doors of Ijtehad (arguments/debates/inquiry/logic/reasoning etc) where closed by the Wahabi sect of Saudi Arabia and their poison of supremacist, zero centric and misogynist interpretations has brought us to the state where we are in. It is time we all put a stop to it - because if we do not, before long all of us will be condemned to the pre-Islamic Ayyam e Zahiliya period of infamy.
Brother, you are a soldier of this great nation, and remember you swore allegiance NOT by any Hadith - but by the kO'RAN and the flag. I salute you for the same and invite you for further debate on the subject. I want to learn. I am not here to teach anyone a thing or tow as I do not want to be known or remembered as a 'preacher' or a Mollah. Islam does not permit a clergy class ! Regards - Mac H
I won't drag this issue further, as becoz, I have respect for what our brother...@ Samsi Arifeen narrated....to avoid muddling it further...However, with all due respect....I also beg to differ with u at many points that u brought out....n I think there can always be a healthy debate if our purpose is to enrich ourselves by learning...regards...